What does the future of "better for you" look like?In this episode, Express Checkout stages a takeover of the Highlight Reel to sit down with Alexander Harik, CEO and co-founder of Zesty Z. With the reins in Nate Rosen's hands, we can guarantee things will get interesting, so tune in for learnings and laughter.

Listen to the full episode to hear:

• Where white space is ripe for innovation in the BFY space
• How brands need to build excitement rooted in affordability and approachability
• Nate and Alexander get real about what's driving growth in today's CPG industry
  
  

Automated webinar transcript

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Hello and welcome to the highlight reel, an interview series with CPG founders and trailblazers talking about the products that we love. I am Nate Rosen, founder of Express Checkout, and today with us we have a very fun founder who is fueling better-for-you fiber filled snacks. We're gonna be talking about the state of grocery and retail.

I'd like to introduce you to Alexander Harik, the founder of Zesty Z.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z:  Well, it's a pleasure to be here, and this is a very special episode.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I think so, right?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: The vibes are excellent. They're top notch.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: The vibes are great.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Beautiful morning. Positive energy. I'm excited to be here with you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Thank you. We got some coffee. Yes. And maybe something else in these mugs. And we're, we're good to go.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Well, I'm here. I'm excited. And we've got things to talk about.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Amazing. Well, I've heard this story a lot. Yes. But tell us a little bit about the beginning of Zesty Z and how you got into this, and why you decided to come into CPG.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Can I tell them what our product is first?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: No. All right. Tell us what Zesty Z is.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So we make perfect pita chips. They're high fiber, lower carb, twice baked from fresh Pita.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: They are perfect. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you very much. We're very proud of that, that they're baked from fresh Pita and they've got six grams of fiber. And we launched a product last year, at Summer Fancy Food here in New York.  

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I remember.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And we are in about 500 stores, in just about a year. Some of the big retailer names are Meyer and Wegmans, and we'll talk about that. And we're slowly expanding to the East coast now after our first year, so we just celebrated the first year birthday. I'm hanging with you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Amazing.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We've come a long way from our first meeting.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: How did we meet?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We had donuts in my pickup truck in Connecticut when I moved out there.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Fiber donuts, right?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: No, these were regular full of sugar donuts.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Oh, they, they're thick donuts too.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: They're good. They're good. I love a donut More than a croissant.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Oh, a donut crazy in Westport.  

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It was. And that's how we first met through CPG.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That was fun. We were yapping then. We were yapping now. And that was what like. Five years ago.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Five years ago. Look and look at us now in a fancy studio. Thanks to highlights. Shout out what up, you know, and look at us. So I'm excited and I've been in CPG for about seven years and the journey has been very interesting.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Great. It's good journey.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Very humbling.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: A lot of learnings?  

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: A lot of learnings, a lot of mental health work, a lot of pivots. The pita chip Pivot.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Well the pita chip pivot is my favorite thing.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you very much. And just maximum gratitude. Just  a lot. So, to answer your original question, how we got started? I worked in banking and finance in New York,  originally from the area, went to school in Ohio. Shout out Ohio, Cleveland, Ohio.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I love it.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And I came back, was working for about 10 years in finance and hated it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Classic.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Didn't feel alive, didn't feel creative. Wasn't using all my skills. Wasn't making anything. And I was a kid that liked Legos and bottle rockets and tree houses and things, so I always was a builder.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And I come from a Lebanese background and I said, Hey, food's important to the culture, so mom, we should start selling some food. And we originally launched the brand, selling Premium zaatar and we were the first premium zaatar brand in the US.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Miss that zaatar.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's really good.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's really good. My mom misses that zaatar too. She thinks about it. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I still listen. I've got a VIP stock, you know, Sharon, if you're listening, you know, send it to her. We got it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: She would love that. Oh my God.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I still have a VIP stash of it, but we launched the zaatar. And I was working in finance and at nights and weekends going with my mom to space we rented, in Brooklyn, in Bed-Stuy and manufacturing till two, three in the morning. And then making that and then going on the weekends, door to door, you know, selling, demoing, hustling, the blue IKEA bag, riding the, riding the subways. And we got into about 50 of the independent stores here and really learned the business that way.

From the ground up, I did every single job. And then we launched, expanded with Whole Foods nationally, several thousand retailers, Costco, and then COVID killed my business.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: A classic story. I've heard that. I mean, many times.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yeah. We've heard that many times. I've heard it from a ton. And I just, I think one of the characteristics that I've also had, not just building, it's just persistence.

Like, I don't mind quitting, but am I gonna exhaust everything along the way?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Right.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Can I sleep at night?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Right.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And I knew I wasn't done yet. And I think zaatar taught us a very important lesson. So when, because of the importing, inflation things supply chain, it just killed it. It was a little bit of a blessing in disguise.

Of course, I missed the product, but a ton of learnings from that that have informed me for the big pivot that we made for pita chips. And the two important lessons I learned were educating your customer is expensive and kind of sucks,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Especially at retail.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Really? Yeah. And you're bootstrapped, you don't have a t big marketing budget. It's hard. And you want to be in higher velocity categories like bars, beverages, snacks, things like that, right? Condiments and spices and things like that. Wasn't really it, but I didn't know that. So you don't know what you don't know.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Right.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And so I think that's one of the benefits I look for the silver lining, everything, have a positive attitude, reflect with gratitude, things like that. I'm grateful for that experience. And those are two of the four lessons that I learned that informed us for the pita chips.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah, that makes sense.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So that killed the business in about 2021,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: R-I-P

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: R-I-P.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Then, he came back. He made a big pivot.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So then, well there's more.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Oh my God, there's more.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We had a short-lived popcorn line.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Those were, that was really good popcorn.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I'll tell you what, your boy makes great products. I always...

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That was the best popcorn on the market.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: The honey sea salt flavor people still ask about. And one thing I'm proud of is we make great products, but. CPG kinda lesson is just because you make a great product. Doesn't mean it should exist and doesn't mean you have product market fit.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Exactly. It's the full picture.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Full picture. So we shut, so we shut the zaatar line down. Had a tough conversation. With my co-founder, who's my mom. Shout out. What's up mama? I love you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Best mom.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Zesty Mom. Lorraine. Lorraine, I love you. She's the rock of Zest Z.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: She's amazing. I love seeing her at all the trade shows.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you. Thank you. She loves you too. aAnd we'll talk about zesty mom, because there would be no zesty Z without Lorraine,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  right?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Absolutely. I'm gonna get emotional later for sure. Good. But we'll save that park that to the side.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Good. Weird if you didn't.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z:True, true, true. So we shut it down. Tough conversation with mom. But we gotta do it. She's like, okay, I trust you. We go into popcorn, with global flavors. We did a honey sea salt, which was amazing. Instead of a kettle corn really,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Really good, which was really good,

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: But we did a so good, we did a feta cheese one instead of cheddar.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I like the harissa one.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We did a spicy up, we did one

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: So good.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We did a zaatar one and there we shut that down within a year. And I think the lesson there, you know. I'm not afraid to fail fast and I'm not afraid to shut things down. Like I think detaching your ego, I think is a lot of founders. Probably should be doing that more.

Has helped me quite a bit, make very clear-eyed decisions on where we want to go when it's very obvious and we'll talk more about that, but we shut that down. But the lesson two lessons I learned there were people don't care about global flavors. Hot take.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I think it's good on take, hot take.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Most people are just down the middle. And you can't think of things just on the coasts in New York, la, et cetera. Like most people just want simple, basic, you know, kind of middle of the road flavors. And there's nothing wrong with global flavors, but just as a sustainable business for snacking and some other things. I'm just not very high on that and I have experience.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: The consumer's not there yet.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And I come from the zaatar business, so I'm telling you this from a very painful like place like that was a big lesson. I don't think people care that much about global flavors. Of course, there are successful brands out there who have bucked that trend, but by and large, if I'm giving advice to someone now who's starting a business, leave the global flavors alone.

Go down the middle. That was lesson three of four, right?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: So many, right? It's too many lessons on there.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: A lot of lessons. Then the final one was popcorn was a very competitive category. Ton of players and I didn't really understand category dynamics as much. And then after looking back on it, I was like, okay, yeah, this makes sense.

The popcorn category is loaded with big national brands and big regional brands and like some of the. Number one, brands are doing 300 million in sales. But number two brand is doing 200 million.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Right. It's hard to...

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And it's like a hundred and then 75. And so it's just like really? It's also a commoditized product too.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. And now Hershey's owns two of the leading brands.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Exactly. So it's like, so it's just like, what's going on here?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  You can't compete with that.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You can't, there's no way on earth you, you, and something is like luck, hard work, timing. Just we missed the, the popcorn thing. Not gonna happen.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Little late.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Not gonna happen a little late. So we shut that down. So to recap, the four lessons are educating your customers expensive. Don't go into slow velocity categories. Forget about global flavors. Stay down the middle. Focus more on nutrients and ingredients, and then try to avoid really, you know, competitive categories. So I was gonna shut the business down completely and say peace out.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Going back to investment banking.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Go work for pet cannabis, other CPG brands. Do operations. Maybe start something else. Take a sabbatical. Play tennis down in Miami.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Down in Miami, put of linen.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Any tennis players out there in CPG, let me know. New hobby. And I'm working on my one-handed backhand.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Ooh. I got really good at that when I was younger. But I, I know I gotta start playing again.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Should we host a CPG Tennis party in Connecticut?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. Yeah. We should. We should do it. That is the most Connecticut thing. We could, we should.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: But there's a lot of tennis players in the city.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  We'll bring 'em out to Connecticut.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yeah, come on down. I'll rent out all the courts at the club.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I'll drive them out. I got a car. We're all good.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: They can take the north too.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I'll pick 'em up from the train station.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: There you go.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Little tennis refreshments. So you can do backend.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: This is a good idea. This is a good idea. Should do this.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  I got some brands who can...

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We should do this. Yeah, we should do this. All right.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: We're doing this. No, that camera, that camera, that camera,

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Boom, boom, boom, boom. Where, where was I? So I was gonna shut down the business.  And then I went and spoke with some retailers and distributors and I said, Hey, thinking of stepping away before I go, what do you like, what do you see?

What do you know? And they're like, Hey, you've always made great products. Before you go, I think you should look at pita chips. And this is where listening to your customers makes sense. I said, why you have a pretty big brand at the top, the one that shall not be named. And then, I was like, yeah, you got this big brand at the top.

And they're like, yeah, it's been around for 30 years. Nice product, but same packaging, same flavors, nothing new. And there's really not any competition. Right? You're also Lebanese like it would fit with the brand story. Why don't you look at it? So using the four lessons that I k ind of learned the hard way.

Checks off, no education check, high velocity check, more down the line flavors, probably check competitive category, not so much. So check. And I was like, wow, it's really top heavy. It's like 80% market share. And I, yeah. Can you, can you think, I mean, can you really think of another like brand?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: No.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Outside of private label and like maybe a regional thing.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Sure.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: But if I ask you for a popcorn brand, if I ask you for a tortilla chip brand, a beverage, a bar, brand, whatever, you'll name me five off the cuff, boom.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Right? That all control a pretty significant portion of the markets.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Big chunk. So from a more strategic standpoint, it was like, wow, okay, we really could disrupt here and have some fun.

So it checks off all these boxes for me. And then for my own personal health and you know, wellness journey, like protein and fiber. And I had a nutritionist, you know, and I used to be a hundred pounds heavier, had high cholesterol. So I've been on quite a journey on my own as well. Protein and fiber are things that I was always eating and focusing and prioritizing.

And seeing what happened with protein over the past couple years. I was like, okay, I don't know if we need more protein.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You don't need a protein pita chip.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We don't need a protein though.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: The alliteration does sound really fine.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's nice, especially with the PPP. Perfect. Pita Chip.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Chip. Perfect Protein pita chip would would sound pretty good. I think you're okay. There's protein pretzels. I think that's enough.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: There's a lot of protein. Every my, I was old enough to remember when they were sprinkling probiotics on all sorts of snacks when I first got into the game, and I thought that was ridiculous.

They were like protein tortilla, I mean, probiotic, like tortilla chips and like, trail mix. My first expo west, I was like, I'll just eat the yogurt. I'll take, you know, yeah. I'll love the kimchi.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yogurt. Maybe the OliPop at, at most you know. Yeah.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z:  But we don't need snacks sprinkled with No, that trend died.

Now protein, tons of benefits, whatever, but I just felt it was oversaturated. And then from my own experience in food science and manufacturing, I was like, okay, fiber makes a ton of sense. Baking science aligns more with fiber. So, long story short, in 2023, I made the decision we're gonna give this one last time, we're making this big pita chip pivot.

Gonna take all my experience and make this bet on fiber. We spend a year on r&d and baking science is hard.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah, it's a science.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's hard. And we did a ton of work. I worked with some awesome people. We developed an awesome recipe. It's very good. And then we launched the product in, at Summer Fancy Food last year.

And it's, the response has been amazing. We've got a ton of industry press. Fiber demand is up 29% year over year. Spins featured us in a big report.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  That was huge.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You saw that report?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: That was big time.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Big time.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: They put us right next to like Quest and Wild and Nutrient dense snacking is back. I mean, it was unbelievable.

And on their analysis it was like protein is up 33 to 35% year over year, but fiber's right next to it. 29%. So we've really leaned in on it. But I think the biggest thing, I'm also proud on, not only nailing that it's a really good chip you can taste. We make it from high quality.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Best pizza chip on the market. It's crunchy.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you. Flame grill marks on both sides? Double edges, curved edges.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's aesthetically pleasing.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It tastes great.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's like a nice car.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. So that's the journey kind of. That's the pivot and I'm just taking all my lessons and we're having a ton of fun. Our go-to market strategy was mostly in the Midwest and learning kind of we're seeing great turns, great numbers there. Working with the right people. Focused slow and steady and having a ton of fun. The last thing I'll say is, man, product market fit is a great high.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Oh, of course.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's ooh.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  And you know, you know when you have it too,

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Cooking, baby, yes.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  You know?  When you feel it, because you're, because everyone's like, oh, yeah, yeah. Of course.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You know, and I say this with great humility and I tell our team and everybody like, keep your head down foot on the gas. But wow, like, and just because there's a ton of outside press and kind of momentum talking about fiber and the benefits, I don't have to educate. People are like, yeah, this makes a ton of sense and retailers are really responding to it as our customers.

So that's the story. Quite a journey.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Quite a journey. I think the two coolest things about that story in particular is like, one, how much that one brand controls the market and how the number two and three are just like so much lower.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So based on our analysis, the big brand controls over 80%. The next closest is seven.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That's insane.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And it's a copycat product, same color packaging, same kind of thing. And then it just trickles off from there. So our view is like we've got a ton of room to disrupt here.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. And get a good product to lean into the function.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: There's a ton and there's a ton of articles really in CPG. I mean, I'm sure maybe you want to talk about this, but like big CPG is at a crossroads right now.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yes, they are.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: They're losing a ton of market share despite years. There was a great New York Times article. Our article about it. Despite years of price increases. Wow. I wish I could have that right, like.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And still sell.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yeah. Yeah. And still sell after years of price increases. They're losing like 60, 50, 60% of market share innovation. Pipelines are drying up. There's a flurry of m&a activity and

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: So much.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And New York Times article last week was talking about, and even like the parent company of the big brand was saying on earnings calls. It's like, Hey, we're looking to add more protein, more fiber, more different things to things and it, that just makes me feel too like, yo, we're really on the right track with this product market fit. Seeing that article, that's what they were telling investors on their quarterly call.

I was like, damn, we, let's keep cooking baby. Let's keep moving.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. These, these new, these, you know bigger CPG brands, they need some innovation. They're not really willing to do it in-house fully. And when they do it in-house, it's either post acquisition or I think, I think the Pepsi probiotic is actually pretty good.

I think it's good that they branded it as Pepsi Cola and I got to try it early and it tastes just like Pepsi. And I know some people don't like Pepsi. That's fine, but it tastes like Pepsi. So for people who like Pepsi and who don't really want the Poppi thing, like I it works. It's, playing into the emerging stuff, but it's also playing into, like what we were saying before, most people just point the middle. They want the normal, they don't want anything crazy.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Give people, just give it down the middle. Shoot down the middle.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. They don't want anything like too out there in either direction. Whether it's flavor, whether it's, whether it's a cultural representation, unfortunately, or whether it's even branding.

Some people, like, there's too much over branding that I think a lot of people are put off by, even if it's a really good product.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Sure. Sure. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: But yeah, I mean, I think like a lot of these. Massive conglomerates are either going to be acquiring other bigger ones and trying to consolidate, or they're doing the acquisition of these upstarts, emerging brands, a hundred percent, Pepsi with Poppi.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Hundred percent There is a big, I think so. Being in the game now, seven, eight years. I mean, I was old enough, you know, I mean, I'm old enough in the game to remember the probiotic thing in my first expo West, and I think there's a period of brands where it was like 2017, 18 through 2023, there was like a phase. And you see some of those emerging brands that have either been acquired or now mature.

And now I feel, and with big CPG not innovating as much and there's kind of like a gap, I think there's a really interesting time now. And I think for us it's an exciting time where it's like there's kind of, there's this white space. It's like what's the next emerging better for you? Fun kind of brand that can nail it, that really has a shot.

And I, putting our hat into that category. I think our packaging is clean. I think the nutritionals are very straightforward. It's an amazing product. Number one rule of CPG. And I, I'm very excited about where things are. I think there's a ton of white space right now, and for any founders who are out there whatnot, like hopefully these rules help you figure it out and like get out there.

But there's some other advice I have for Frans. We can. We can give it later.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Well, I think the other part of that story too is like you're listening to the buyers and retailers about what they're seeing. But you're also listening to sort of more loosely like what the customers are seeing is like, has there been anything really surprising, any surprising learnings from customers and retailers that you weren't expecting?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So, I think, yes. Forget the global flavors. Forget like so crazy. Like just go down the middle. Like keep it simple, stupid, like, so that's what I'm noticing about customers. Like with the way things are right now, customers have a very short attention span. And if you try to go too niche, it can work for some things, but broadly speaking, you can complicate or you're just doing too much.

So keeping it really simple. And then from retailers, what I'm hearing a ton of things too is that they're just kind of disappointed with the innovation pipeline that's been out there and they're looking for new things. And that's what, you know, one of the key factors I think that landed us with two really tier one retailers in the first year, Meyer and Wegmans.

And I think for us too, the fiber piece that plays with it too, not only for, you know, gut health feeling full weight loss management, there's blood sugar regulation and a ton of our early customers on our website. We're buying cases of the product and even locally near me who wear glucose monitors and stuff, and they were saying, Hey, this doesn't spike my blood sugar as much.

This is a snack that I can actually enjoy. So for the diabetic, for the GLP-1 Ozempic community or just people monitoring their blood sugar in general, like the benefits of fiber on blood sugar is something that we're monitoring. And what does that look like? So those factors are certainly interesting in what retailers are telling us as well.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Yeah. Yeah, I find that fiber, protein, and caffeine are like the three most truly functional ingredients you can have.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Very simple.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I like, there's very few other ones that I feel like are. Even feel as more, obviously there's like ashwagandha and L-theanine, there's these other additives that

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Come on now. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I know, I think it's cap personally, I think it's caffeine and protein are like the two most. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: But I also like, like there was that, there was that period where there were products coming out with all sorts of stuff in there, and I just think

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Still are. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Hot take number two. I just think those type of products, I mean. What are they doing? Like what, what are they actually doing for the consumer? Because in my view, like, do you know how much of this actual, like particular ingredient you need to see that benefit? So like it's just a kind of like a flashy like marketing like kind of thing.

And like I just think those things have short shelf lives. It's a flash in the pan. Like if you want those functional mushrooms or you want something, just take a mushroom supplement. Like don't like coming brands coming out with certain things and adding a ton of things in.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: There's not enough consumers for that either.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And then the other thing too is, is for how much are people gonna actually pay for the product? I mean like, come on.  Like the founders are overestimating, like just based on their bubble or in their region or where they live. It's like you need to focus on, again, down the middle. And that's why we launched in the Midwest, like that demographic, like these are people like affordability is is the one of the biggest things that we thought about a bag for us at Meyer.

At Wegmans $4.99 a bag.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's very reasonable.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And in the Midwest, so we were launching our first big retailer. You know, the other brand is at $4.49, we're at 11% premium. I felt that that was very reasonable and our numbers are crushing it there, even on promo, we're killing it. And so like the thing that's interesting is like, affordability and approachability. That's what really has driven our pivot and we're seeing the benefits of that, and so that's where I think brands really need to focus more.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah, I mean that's why private label is crushing.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Love private label.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah, and I think a lot of brands should because they can always become that private label.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Most of my shopping cart is private label and not just a Trader Joes. Yeah, I mean, seriously, like I think that there's, I mean, I'm very open to private label. There's some really cool things we're thinking about and doing. And for us, what's interesting with us is I can make alternative versions.

Most private label, like you change ingredients, you do certain things,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: So you're gonna make a protein version?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I like that. I've been asked. I've had people asking for that, and I say to 'em, come on now,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Just get an Equinox bag, protein? Fiber?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Ooh, I do go to Equinox, so I'm partial to them. Equinox. I've, I've actually been asked by multiple people for a protein pea chip and I have to say simmer down now. Simmer down now. Like we, we are not going there. But private label for sure, is a, I love cash flow. I love economy of scale.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Guess what? You're running a business. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: A hundred percent. This idea of top line, boom, let's go LFG, like top line revenue.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's, it's sexy.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Dead. It's dead. You know what? Sexy cash flow, profitability.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Amazing.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And if you know investors in strategics, you know, don't really, you know, prioritize that as much, I think that view is changing. And I think people need to be more realistic. Where consumers, the economy, inflation...

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Cloud only gets you so far.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: That's it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: LinkedIn falling only gets you so far.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Again,  cashflow is king baby. I love cashflow. I love margin.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Wouldn't you rather build for the consumer rather than for the industry?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yes, a hundred percent.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That's why think about this all the time.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: That's why I'm not one of those guys with the focusing a lot on LinkedIn and Twitter so much. I chirp a little bit. I tweet a little.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Oh, you should. You should be present. You should be active.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Like that's some lessons, some lessons for sure. Sharing wind.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: But there's a huge difference between building for your own personal gain, and for your business.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You talk about that a lot with me privately, and I've heard you talk about this online in some other places too.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You, you can tell, you can tell. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We can tell when people are doing it. It's like, Ooh, what are we doing here? Like, are you focusing on the biz or is the biz not going where you want it to go? Or are you one foot in, one foot out and. No judgments, but it's like, ooh. You can tell and...

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: and it's fine if you wanna be an influencer, be an influencer, but like.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I don't. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Exactly. The one foot in, one foot out is what's an issue to me in leveraging the brand to become an influencer.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Agree with you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Feels miss Misguided.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Where are your priorities? I think that's well said there.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I think especially if I was an investor, I'd be a  little concerned. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I don't think any consumers buy a brand because of their founder on a regular, very, I shouldn't say never. Very rarely does a consumer walk by a product and be like, wow

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yes.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Very rarely. We'll never say never. But it's like, God, I love this brand because I love this founder so much.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: On LinkedIn.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: On LinkedIn or his or her Twitter.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Very rarely, I think if, if the person's already an influential, influential person and they're coming to market with a brand sure that's a, but most consumers will not know that Maxx Chewnings, the founder of Sour Strips, so.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Would have no idea. I don't even know. I don't even know Maxx. I'm sure you make a wonderful product. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I am. It's a good product. It was acquired by Hershey's. Very good for him. He was a YouTuber.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And you're funny because when you text me something on our private text and I'm like, oh, what's that? Or who's that? You're like, God, I love you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Like I am, I am.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I hope I'm not putting you on the spot here.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: No, no, no, no. I'm, I'm,

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I feel like this needs to come out a little bit.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I'm cursed with knowledge. It's, shout out Thanos. I guess I am. It's my job. I like to know what's happening.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's your job. You're in the space. You're supposed to know these things.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I'm supposed to know these things. I don't think a lot of people should necessarily know who X, Y, and Z brand that the industry knows. And like I learned this very quickly early on in sort of building out my career, what I thought was a very well known brand.

Even if they were on Shark Tank, many people didn't know. Even people within our industry didn't know this brand. And that's fine. It's hard. It's hard with a CPG product to. Get known because you need to be seen so many times. You have to be hit with that brand. On shelf, online.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Another kind of hot CPG take maybe, I don't know the beauty space as much, but influencer led brands, I'm shorting.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I personally, it's very hard. It's hard. I think it's hard to make most of them work long term.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yes.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Unless the influencer or creator or talent is is very actively involved.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Is very actively involved in it and the product has to be good. This is like one of the biggest things, and I was recently talking about that, was the, someone like.

Your product needs to be excellent. There was a Wall Street Journal article that was talking about trying a bunch of, it just came out last week, a bunch of protein snacks and the journalist was like, I felt sick at the end of the day. And that was her take. And I did not, I have not tried most of these products, so I cannot comment, won't comment on that.

But her conclusion was like, yeah, these made me feel sick. Like these weren't that great. And it's like, at the end of the day, think about an average consumer, like are they gonna repeat, buy that product? I think about that all the time.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. And especially if there's talent behind it of any sort. It has to be a good product.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Good product.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Otherwise it's not gonna go. Ryan Trahans a, very popular YouTuber who I'm sure you haven't heard of.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I have no idea. I have no idea.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. Perfect. Which is always amazing to me. 'cause like he's, I don't know, he's probably got millions and millions and millions of followers and is like going across the...

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I'm not that cool. Like, I don't know.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You're fine. I don't think you should know this person.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I'll rely on you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: He's a candy brand. Called, Joy Ride. I think it's that. They were around, they rebranded. He like took it over and, and they repositioned him as the founder, but it is

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Congratulations to his success.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Number one or number two candy brand in Target. It's amazing.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Good.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Because it's a decent product. He is actually like living and breathing the brand, which I think is really important.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Affordable.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's affordable.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Approachable.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Approachable. Good product.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Accessible. These are the lessons. Boom, boom, boom.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: They're also like, it's like a better for you candy, but they're not like fully leaning into that. They're leaning to, Hey, it's a good candy. That also happens to be better for you.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I love that. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And I think like that's the key thing. I think that's the key thing with your product too. It's good first and also it's better for you.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We got six grams of fiber.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. So do you find that retailers are, other than like finally a better pita chip and a pita chip, that's not...

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: That's our motto. Did you know that? Finally a new pita chip?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You know, I knew that.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I know. I'm teasing you. Keeping you on the track here.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Has?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: you were asking me something about that.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: No, I'm curious about retail 'cause like your first brand you started, you got in, obviously this is pre pandemic, so you had a little bit more leeway, luck, whatever you wanna call it. How is it, how has the retail landscape shifted over the past, you know, seven years since originally launching the brand? 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I think a lot of people, a lot of retailers are moving away from the global flavor part, right?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And it's big shift.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: More functional. So I think that's kind of the biggest shift, that's there. I think a lot of retailers  in the Midwest, are really open for business and that's why we launched there. And I think  conventional is what we're leaning into as well. So those three things, you know, when we first started, you know, natural, independent, kind of that, I think that playbook is tired and I'm making a bet on it.

People might find that a hot take. Number three, people might, people might find that controversial, but I actually, no, I'm betting on it and I've talked to a lot of other founders that were like. Hey, Alexander, you going to the Midwest, because they have bigger format stores, more real estate, you know, easier to deal with.

You can work directly with them. It's not congested like in LA and New York tri-state, right? They're like, that was super smart. Conventional stores are bigger than natural. They now have more natural sets in them. And they're looking and they just have more volume. So I think that paradigm has shifted too, where us leaning into, go to the Midwest.

Go more conventional, be one of the earlier better for you brands. I think that's also been significant for us as well in the landscape.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah. And you get a consumer that will probably, once they fall in love with the product, we'll buy it forever, and we'll tell their friends.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yes. And it's $4.99 a bag for our perfect pita chips and they're gonna say, wow, this is cool. And it's got six grams of fiber. And I found this in the deli department. Great.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And the flavor pipeline is also really cool.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It is. Yeah. We have some fun flavors coming down. I can't say too much about it, but we're not doing a Mediterranean herb, that's for sure. Everything bagel. See you later. We're doing fun stuff, but still down the middle.

We're gonna be looking at other categories. You know, other snack categories. What are the best flavors there? What customers are looking for? Flavor collabs.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And flavor collabs.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Ton of flavor. There's an awesome thing,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Tabasco? 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I mean, that's something that could be cool for something spicy, but being a New Yorker and being a New York brand, love to do a New York style pizza flavor.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Joe's?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So, you know, any of these pizza shops that want to do a situation with us as we grow, that would be cool. Shout out to Shelby, our marketing director who came up with that idea.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  It's a genius idea.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And it's how we met. It's how we met. So thank you Shelby. Oh yeah, yeah. Introduced you to Shelby.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Oh yeah, yeah. You did Shelby's great.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Shelby's great. And so yeah, I think there's some cool for flavor collabs and we just wanna have fun with it. It's a tired category. It's been around for 30 years and we're just shaking some things up, breathing some life, and just taking things with gratitude and, you know, hard work and just having fun.

Have fun. Like I tell our team all the time, you have to operate out of  joy. And I wasn't always doing that. And those are some of the mental health things that I kind of worked on.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Let's talk about that.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Let's.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah, I mean, I know that part of your journey has been prioritizing your mental health.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yes.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And I think also as I've met other founders and have met more folks, it seems like more people need to focus on that.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: They should. Yeah. I think the two biggest things is detach your ego. Yeah, like really, like that's important. I joked about the tennis thing, but detaching your self-worth and ego from the outcome of your business was groundbreaking for me. You know, I wasn't doing that. I first got into the industry. I was like, oh, we've gotta do this, and it's stress.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Makes sense.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I got myself sick, with it. And like it affected relationships of all kinds for me. And it was just not great. And like the stress and the tension, it was like, oh, we gotta do this. We gotta go. We gotta go hustle, LFG, whatever. Not. And you can't see the forest from the trees. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Right?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You can't. And you're like, and you can't make important decisions if your ego's tied into it because I'm Alexander from Zesty Z, how could I possibly give up zaatar? Like there's a little voice in your head that says that, right? I'm the zaatar guy. It's also like, was linked to like my Lebanese roots and it was like, oh God.

So I was like tied up in that. So I made that detachment through a lot of work and it bore a lot of fruits. Like the fruits of that decision were amazing. So detaching yourself worth, also part of that, having friends who are not in CPG.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Normal people, normal people as I call them, normal people.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Normal people. People talk to me about that. They're like, yeah, that's good advice. Like I, having a hobby, tennis for me is that outside of like fitness and things like that or whatever, but like really having a hobby and like a circle of friends. And when I'm playing tennis, like all jokes aside, it's active meditation for me.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Sure.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I literally think of nothing else when I'm out there and. In my spare time, the little of it that I have, like I'm watching YouTube videos, I'm doing things, I'm practicing on my own. And I think the exercise of slowly working towards a higher goal is important lesson everyone should, should really work on.

And then the other piece is self-awareness is a superpower. I was not self-aware in a lot of ways. And now after a ton of work and things,

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's hard.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's hard. But once you, once you start working on it, whew. That's a big one. And I'm realizing more and more people who are self-aware, like those are the people you want to connect with.

So I think how you react to situations, what are your triggers? Like, what brings you joy, what brings you sadness? How are you feeling in this moment? Not reacting really quickly, you know? How to deal with conflict, you know, joy. So just the self-awareness piece is, is a superpower that I'm trying to talk more about and encourage more people to work on.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: But those are the kind of the mental health things that have really helped me kind of be in a really, really good space so I can operate outta joy and flow. So the creativity just flows, and we're having a ton of fun.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I mean, it looks like it.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I think we're having fun.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We are.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I'm having fun too.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We are. Yes.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I would love some pita chips right now.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I know, I know.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Some ASMR.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I forgot them. I know. I was supposed to bring a bunch of bags and it's my bad.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I ate all the bags in my home, so...and all the sample 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And all the samples of future flavors.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We should have done some ASMR here.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: We should have done some ASMR.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: The crunch is unbelievable.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: The crunch is insane. And it's not oily too.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Now you're cooking baby.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Which I think, no, it's like i t makes such a difference and they're all the perfect size.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Is that a pun intended? You said perfect.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: No. See or a freudian  slip maybe.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I like that they are good size because we actually make them from real pita bread. So like other brands out there, especially the leaders, don't, they make them like crackers.  You'll see some brands that are like circle crackers, like...

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Too thin?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Too thin. They're fried.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: They're wait, it looks like because a pita is two sides.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's two sides you're actually making.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And a lot of the chips are just one.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: One because they make them like crackers. They sheet them out now. So for us, we actually make pita dough using a traditional Lebanese Syrian style pita bread, and it gets baked, and they're round sizes and they get flipped and baked. They puff up, they go down, we cut them up, we bake them again. A lot of other brands just make their pita chips like a cracker or in circle shapes or frying them, and it's just not, not great.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I like that they're not big triangles either.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you for that.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Because that hurts.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's like a like, it's like you're, yeah. Like stabbing your mouth yourself.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Like Yeah. It's like, it's like having a bunch of, what's the cereal that cuts up the roof of your mouth? Captain Crunch? 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I don't know.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Captain Crunch.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I've never had it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: What?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I know.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: What do you have for breakfast?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Do you really wanna know what I have for breakfast? So I've got....

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: This is relevant, by the way.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: This is relevant. So I have, so my breakfast, 50 grams of protein.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That's insane.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So we've got 150 grams of egg whites, two eggs, two full serving of Greek yogurts.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You could just have two David bars.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I could, I could do that. I could do that. Or I could just have this, the, these eggs.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Also good.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yep. I have half avocado, I have some toast and some blackberries with a yogurt. 50 grams. That's what I have every day.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That's pretty good.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yeah. Yeah, I have that every day, day.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You're gonna hate what I have.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: What are you having, captain Crunch?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: No, I have a bowl of Honey Nut Cheerios .

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Okay, that's not that bad.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's not that bad. And then I have some milk and I have a coffee.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Where's the protein, bro?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Cottage cheese on honey toast.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Okay, so, okay, so, okay, there you go.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: With some honey on top.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: There it is. That's pretty good. Breakfast.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Yeah. Or I'll have like peanut butter on toast and if I'll make a smoothie, I'll do like peanut butter, milk, banana, maybe a little coffee in there.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Very healthy. You're good. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Don't, don't. You're good.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Or I just forget breakfast all together. That's not good.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: That's not good. I do text you sometimes. Have you? Do you remember? Have you remember to eat?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: And that I'm very much like my father, where I will forget to eat.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Your mother does text me sometimes to check on you. Hold on, let's get this out there. Your mother does text me sometimes to check on you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: She's gonna listen to this.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: This is why this is a very special episode. Nate's mother, who's a lovely human being, does sometimes check on me. Have you talked to Nate recently? 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Sharon,  I'm fine.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Have you talked to Nate? Where's Nate? Is he eating?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: All she needs to do is go to my Substack, my TikTok, my LinkedIn, my Instagram. I'm trying to think of other channel.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I'm happy to be a resource for her.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: She also has my location. I'm fine.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I know. I know, but I think it's tender.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You won't give me her location.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: She likes it. She likes it. That I'm kind of looking out for you and that's why this is a special episode.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I need. But she, she knows what I'm snacking on at the very least.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's true. She appreciates it. Well, she's very proud of you, right?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: She gets the new stuff. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: The Express Checkout's moving.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's moving great.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You're doing cool things. You're doing content. We're doing this.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: We're doing this.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You're a leading voice in the industry.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I try to be.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We're gonna get you to more trade shows.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I would like to go to more trade shows.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We hosted a fantastic happy hour at Fancy Foods.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: We did. We should host more.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We are gonna do more things together.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: With Highlight.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We could do that for sure. They've sponsored and having its great studio. I mean, look at this.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: We should host people here at this studio.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We could do a lot of things, but it Congratulations to all your success.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Well, thank you.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I'm very proud of you. You've come a long way.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: We both have. I do post a lot.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You do more than me.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Rightfully so. Yes, it's true. This is my job.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's true.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: My job is to shout out founders and great brands.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: What else you got for me?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: What else I got for you? Are we at peak protein?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Feels like it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah, there there is a cereal brand that just came out that has creatine protein.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I know.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I was surprised they called out keto.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I thought that died a while ago.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I thought so too.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I thought that died a while ago.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I'm shocked. I will try though.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yeah. I don't, I haven't tried it, so I can't comment on it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout:  Keto, Ketos gone.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I mean, I don't, I was never on the diet. I don't know so much about it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Protein, my hot take is because I...

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I've given you hot takes. Come on hot. Let's go. Let's go, let's go.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Protein in everything. Screw it. If people are consuming it. I think there's enough consumers who want it in inconvenient formats. Yeah. I think it's fine.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: What do you think about hydration? Are we peak hydration?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I hope so. There  was this Wall Street Journal article where they like, talk to scientists. And we both, I live with a surgeon, A physician? Your, your sister's a physician, a surgeon as well.

And I've heard this forever. I mean my wife tells me all the time, it's like this is just unnecessary. And like my take with the hydration brands is it's great they exist. There's great founders, there's great products out there. There's plenty I would recommend, right, from like an actual, Hey, you need this hydration, these electrolytes.

No, most of us are not crazy athletes or out in the ocean for three weeks on a raft and are dehydrated.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Or playing tennis for two hours in the heat.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You're not even that dehydrated enough to need anything more than water.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You're probably right, but I do take hydration only when I play tennis. But yeah, I'm with you on that.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Most people want it for the flavor. Yeah. Most people don't like plain water, which is fine. And I just.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Just drink it. Just drink water.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I like flavored water.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Drink the water.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: I like my salute hydration packets, element, Salute is my favorite.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Nice product.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Salute is really good. All like aqua Fresca flavors really, really good. I also really like their caffeinated.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Haven't tried that. You were big on caffeine as a trend.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Still big on caffeine.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: What? So what more caffeine is, so you said, you said something interesting. You think the three things moving forward, looking forward as we kind of like wrap up

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Like the static.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: What are the things that you are bullish on in consumer? And you said protein, fiber, and caffeine.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We talked about protein. We've obviously talked about fiber in the white space that's there.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Caffeine.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And caffeine, you know, is something. You know, I think you're right about these three things. They are very simple to digestible nutrients.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You know what you're getting and that's..

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: That's it, baby.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That's why like energy drinks have been such a consistent thing and why...

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's energy.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: They're still big. People know what these ingredients mean. Whether it's more broadly or specifically for them, they know what fiber needs.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: No education. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: There's no education needed.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Circling back to key lessons.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: No education needed. That  is the biggest thing. I mean, on shelf, you have three seconds. At most. 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You really do. You really do. At most.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You have three seconds to be like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna get this. Especially if it's a new product.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: And I think with new products too, and maybe this is hot take, I think number four is like maybe the barrier to entry and CPG is too low.

And I'm not one to say like, oh, stifle innovation and this and that, but like, are you really thinking intent intentionally about the product? You're doing it? Are you launching this product because you can get easy access to money. You worked in vc? Or you have money, you saved up. 

If you're like, yeah, you need something. Like just launching a brand to launching a brand, like I'm not sure that's a great strategy. Some of these products that you see that are very niche, whether it's like some quote unquote functional things or this and that or flavors this, and I'm like, why? Because it's gotta be digestible, pun intended.

And affordable. And affordable. Like people, like a customer is not gonna continue this and you don't like stop spending money if you're also like a, mostly a retail ready. I think you were talking to me about the, what does that mean? Like we're not a D2C brand. Most food brands are not so stop it.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Hard to be.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: So stop it. You're shipping air. Unless you're shipping like small, dense products in like a 24 pack where the numbers like break out. You're not, you're a retail ready. So understand what that dynamic looks like and what it takes to succeed there. Like, and yes, D2C works for a ton of brands and you know, good for them, but for the overwhelming majority of CPG we're shipping air.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Right.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: You know? And so I just think like that piece too, it's like. Do we really need this product? Like is this retail ready, focused most, is it digestible?

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Most of the things in Food and Bev and I has arguably been made and perfected.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yes. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Maybe it's not the best version that it could be, but it's been done. And I think if you wanna start a brand and you have an idea, I do think you should go for it, but you should be very cognizant of like, especially food and beverage. The margins are not always great. It's a lot of the categories and the subcategories are already very crowded. And like to stand out, know what your moat could be.

Is it, you're really good at social media and you can get this in front of a lot of people really quickly to garner that core audience space and then get to retail and then move, move forward. Like there's a  yogurt brand sour milk. They're great on presenting themselves online. Are there a lot of yogurt brands already?

Yeah. Chobani, Danon and Stonyfield, whatever, but they can get into their audience much faster, and build a good base.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: I mean, just, it's the lesson number three that I learned. What's the category look like and what's the competition there? And luckily for us, I was gonna, I was gonna hang up the, hang up the boots, hang up the gloves.

Until we found very interestingly enough from talking to the customers, was like, yo, there's this white space here, and it's super top heavy. And we're doing things.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You're doing things great.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: You are welcome. Well, it looks like we're unfortunately out of time today, Alexander.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you, Nate.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Thank you so much for joining us on this Highlight Reel.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's been real talking to you.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: It's been, it's been real. It's been reel pun intended? 

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Pun intended. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Pun intended. We'll be sending out an email post event with ways to get in touch with Alexander and Zesty Z and myself and Express checkout as well as highlight, and we'll also be doing a Q&A. So be on the lookout for that. Alexander, where can, people find you?

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: On Twitter, TheHarik, on LinkedIn, of course, I post some thoughts there. And then our website, ZestyZ.com, you can order product there. You can become an affiliate if you're interested. If you're a nutritionist, dietician, kind of influencer that's on the fiber journey.

Wants to be on the fiber journey with us. There's some opportunities there. And then in all Wegmans, except for the New York City ones for now, mostly in the Midwest, in the Myers and a bunch of other chains. And we'll be expanding and have more exciting updates on retail launches later this year.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Amazing.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Thank you again. And thank you to Highlight

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Thank you. I'll say where they can find me.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Yeah, where can they find you, Nate? Tell 'em Nate.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: They can find me in too many places you can find me on my Substack Express Checkout. Nate Rosen is also on Substack. I'm on TikTok. I am on Instagram. I'm on LinkedIn as well, so if you want to chat more about CPG, consumer brands, retail, subscribe to the newsletter.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: It's the best newsletter in the game, plug you on that. 

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Follow me, TikTok is fun and if we're friends on TikTok, you get my friends only posts, which are...

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Love that. Ooh, spicy Natee, spicy. The best newsletter in the game.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Yeah.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: Real actual insights. Thank you for that.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: That is what I've been told.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: We'll keep it up.

Nate Rosen, Express Checkout: Thank you.

Alexander Harik, Zesty Z: A pleasure.